For almost a year the Indonesian government dismissed claims that the group was a threat. But on Wednesday, Indonesia’s minister for State Security, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, conceded that Jakarta “cannot disagree” with assertions that Jemaah Islamiah is a terrorist organization. Yudhoyono also named Bashir as the organization’s leader. On Saturday, he was arrested after failing to appear to answer questions about his involvement in a series of bombings that killed at least 16 people on Christmas Eve 2000.
Bashir, 64, denies that Jemaah Islamiah even exists–though he also says he prays daily that the Qaeda terrorist network will destroy the United States. Sitting on a straw mat in a house in a blue-collar neighborhood in Jakarta last week before his arrest, the Indonesian cleric spoke with NEWSWEEK’s Joe Cochrane. Excerpts:
COCHRANE: The United States, Britain, Australia, Malaysia and Singapore accuse you of being a terrorist and the leader of Jemaah Islamiah. Why would they make such public claims if there were no truth to them?
BASHIR: Those who called me a terrorist are non-Muslim countries. Malaysia never labeled me as a terrorist, but they condemned me for being a teacher and attracting people to militant Islam. Why do the rest accuse me of being a terrorist? Because according to those non-Muslim countries, terrorists are… those who fight for Islam. They define it without enough evidence.
In the past few days, some of those same countries strongly implied that you and Jemaah Islamiah were responsible for the Bali blasts. Your reaction?
It’s normal. I am Muslim, and they are non-Muslim. Those countries are actively going against Islam, while I actively defend Islam. So they don’t like me, and I don’t like them.
Is it possible that some other Indonesian-based Islamic group, possibly linked to Al Qaeda, carried out the Bali bombing?
Definitely not. It was carried out by America. They probably hired some people who claim to be Muslims, or are amateur Muslims. [That’s] a possibility, but I’m sure that America and Israel were the masterminds.
The reason the Americans engineered this was to give them the justification [to say] that Indonesia is a terrorist nest. But there is nothing in Indonesia.
But even Indonesia’s Defense minister, Matori Abdul Djalil, has admitted that Al Qaeda is operating in Indonesia.
That official has probably been bought off. It was their justification to say, “Terrorists are Islam and terrorists are Muslims.” All the indications show that logically, the Americans were responsible. The U.S.A. wants to dominate Indonesia, especially by weakening Islam in Indonesia. Islam has become their main enemy since the fall of communism.
All the attention you’re getting from Western governments and the media has created a perception that you’re the new Osama bin Laden. What is your reaction to that?
Praise the Lord. Osama bin Laden is a Muslim hero and warrior of God. Not a terrorist. The real terrorists are [U.S. President] George Bush and [Israeli Prime Minister] Ariel Sharon. Osama bin Laden was acting in self-defense. He was defending Islam. He saw Islam being attacked, so he fought back. That’s what we call a mujahedin, not a terrorist. America attacked Afghanistan first, without any reason. Israel kills Palestinians for no reason.
If the Indonesian authorities use soon-to-be-enacted emergency powers to arrest you without evidence, would you and your supporters resist?
Yes, I will fight the best I can. I have no such power, but I have many Muslim brothers. All the Muslim people are my brothers. If there is any Muslim being treated unfairly by others, he would be defended by his brothers.
Do you believe there is an ongoing war between Islam and the West?
I do. After the fall of communism, both the Jews and Christians truly believe the biggest enemy to their civilization is Islam. Other Muslim clerics have agreed that both Jews and Christians are promoting a new Crusade.
What is your opinion of Megawati Sukarnoputri’s performance as president of Indonesia?
Megawati is a Muslim woman who doesn’t really defend Islam. Her leadership will not be successful because, according to the Prophet Muhammad, a nation led by a woman will not succeed. In Islam, women have their own place. They can lead, but in these places only. Not at the top.
