Newsweek: First of all let me ask you about Iraq. The summit in Beirut seemed to be sending a pretty clear message that if the United States wants to attack Iraq, this isn’t the time–and there may never be a time.
Saud Al Faisal: What is the issue, the attack or the objectives of the attack? The objective of the attack is to bring Iraq around to implementing the United Nations resolutions, including accepting weapons inspectors. And this is what the Iraqis promised the [Arab summit] conference. They promised they would not repeat the August 2 [1990 occupation of] Kuwait. They guaranteed the security and territorial integrity of Kuwait. And they promised to implement the United Nations resolutions. So I think the conference did good work in achieving the objectives that the United States wanted.
And what sort of reaction have you gotten from the United States?
Well we haven’t gotten any negative reaction. But I think the United States is more preoccupied now with the situation in the occupied territories–and rightly so. Because the situation there is so dangerous and the threat of conflict is so imminent there that it is right that they should turn their attention to that.
Apart from issuing resolutions, what can the Arab world do and what can Saudi Arabia do to try to calm the situation there?
This implies that we should face the onslaught that the Israelis are carrying out against the Palestinians. Is this what is needed now? For the Arab countries to enter into the conflict? Is this what the international community prefers as a solution to the existing crisis? To spread the conflict? I don’t think so. The Arab countries have chosen peace as their strategic option at this time and they will pursue this option. And if war spreads it will be completely the responsibility of [Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon and Israel. It is true that the summit passed only resolutions, but they are resolutions of significance. If it is security that Israel needs and wants, we offered a pretty cogent argument for that security that we hope the Israeli people will be convinced of and act upon.
It’s pretty hard to convince the Israeli people of that when they are getting blown up in their cafes, in their pizzerias, in their supermarkets…
Let’s call things as they are. Who is responsible for these terrorists? Who nurtured them? Is it the teachings of Yasir Arafat, as Sharon says? If the Palestinians were treated with the humanity they deserve, with the understanding they should have… Look, they are considered by Mr. Sharon as slightly higher forms of life than animals. They are demeaned. One soldier can enter into a house and take a whole family out of the house. He doesn’t even have to be an officer. If a shot is fired close to a house it is razed to the ground. My God, even trees are uprooted. They go into Ramallah, they call for all men from the age of 14 upward to come out, they put them in shackles, blindfold them, take them away with no accusation. This is what created this situation. What would force an 18-year-old girl to put dynamite on her body and explode it in a marketplace? Is that Yasir Arafat’s doing or is it the policy of Israel that has caused that? So we don’t condone violence. We don’t condone the suicide bombs, we don’t condone the death of innocent people. But the fact is they are the results of Israeli policy in the Palestinians’ territory.
My impression at the Beirut summit and elsewhere is that a lot of people in the Arab world think the Palestinians are winning this one. That for the first time Arabs have frightened the Israelis.
Nobody wins a war in the present day. Winners are losers. This is what all wars have taught us. The price is just too high for the perception that you can win a conflict, especially in the Middle East where throughout history from the Middle Ages on there has been conflict. Who has won and who has lost in these wars? We don’t want that. We want to break the cycle of violence. We want to break the cycle of hatred. We want to achieve peace in which the people of Israel find the security they need and the Arab countries have their lands back.
A lot of Arabs now are saying it’s not enough to get the Occupied Territories back.
I haven’t seen them.
That’s the position of Hamas. And Hamas has gotten a lot of support from people in the Gulf–from Saudi Arabia, from Kuwait, from the Emirates.
Before Hamas was put on the so-called terrorist list, it was given support. But from Saudi Arabia, official support was only given to the Palestinian Authority and before that to the PLO only. If Hamas was given support it was given support by private organizations. All such activity now is regulated. Support goes only to the Palestinian Authority.
So there is no more support from Saudi donors to Hamas?
Covertly? If there is information about it we would like to know about it, but according to regulations we have established, which everybody knows about, even the United States government knows about these regulations, no donations go to anybody except the [Palestinian] national authority.
Sharon last week made it clear “no more red lines.” Are you trying to set new lines that Israel cannot cross without risking major consequences?
Mr. Sharon has a history of going beyond red lines. Massacres are a red line for any army, yet when the Israeli army occupied Lebanon they allowed for the massacre of Sabra and Shatila, and colluded in it, not only allowed it. I don’t know what is happening now in Ramallah and the other cities of the Palestinian authority that are occupied by the Israeli government. One hears stories. But it behooves the international community to make sure that no contravention of the Geneva Convention are being implemented by the Israeli army.
You don’t want to say right here what the red lines are?
Well he’s already crossed all red lines, occupied all the territories. His tanks are there. He’s going to search and destroy every house where he says he finds traces of a terrorist network. That means a free hand to do whatever he likes. Isn’t this crossing the red line of the Geneva Convention?
In 1973, when Sharon encircled the Egyptian Third 3rd Army and threatened Cairo, your father, King Faisal, decided to stop exporting oil to the United States.
I hope you’re not urging us to a boycott.
I’m asking if it’s crossed your mind.
Oil is not a weapon. Oil is a resource. Oil is what makes our economies run. Conditions then were one thing and now are another thing. An enemy, if he were fighting us, would destroy our capacity to produce oil. Why would I do the same thing to myself? This would weaken me more than anybody else. The oil is needed for our development, and for every action that we take we have to rely on the resources that oil brings. So anybody who called for an embargo would have to be somebody who does not understand the reality of the international economy or harbored objectives inimical to the Arab countries.
So that’s a non-starter as far as you’re concerned?
Of course.
What role should the United States play in all this?
The United States is needed in order to bring peace about precisely because it supports Israel in every way–economically, militarily, politically. It is the only country therefore that has an influence on Israel. If Mr. Sharon has created a kind of psychosis in the Israeli population, then this should not be shared by the United States. And when they see the destructive direction that Israel is taking, they have a heavy moral obligation to prevent it. If U.S. support is indiscriminate as well as unlimited regardless of what Israel is saying or doing, then that only serves to egg them on.
Israeli civilians are getting blown up by terrorists where they work and shop and play. Isn’t there an argument that if there were a way to make them feel safer, there could be a way out of this?
This is exactly what the summit conference tried to do. For the first time, it is offering the Israelis a peace that is complete. That means a peace that they sign with all the Arab countries in one shot. That means normal relations with all the Arab countries in one shot. If that does not bring peace and security to Israel then certainly the turrets of tanks and missiles from F16s are not going to do so.
You tell me. Do you think the Israelis would be more or less likely to negotiate seriously if the violence stopped?
Who wants the violence to continue?
I think there are a lot of people in the Arab world who do.
We want it to stop. There are those who are not interested in peace who want the violence to continue on both sides. Let’s not give them an excuse. Let’s go forward with peace and not, every time an act is done by one of these people who are against peace, stop the process and start anew. Now Mr. Sharon is in all the Palestinian territory, has he stopped the violence?
Isn’t it time that the Palestinian leadership evolved and change. Arafat is 72 years old, he’s sick–and he looks very comfortable in a bunker, more comfortable than he looked on the White House lawn when peace was supposed to be at hand.
We are sure that Arafat will support the peace proposals. Are you sure that Sharon will deliver? The equation is that if you bring about a peace process, the Arab countries can convince the Palestinians to pursue it. But this requires an equal commitment from the United States to convince the Israelis. Arafat is the only person to negotiate a peace treaty with the Israelis. They don’t have to love the guy. They can even hate him. But there is no alternative but to negotiate with the guy who represents the people fighting for the territory. The Israelis want to choose who to negotiate with and to negotiate with him–but I see they are allowed to do that. They are allowed to do the most extraordinary things. The Israeli people are faced with a choice now. If it is peace and security they want, they can have it. Mr. Sharon is not pursuing policies to provide that. This is very clear, and I hope it’s clear to them. We are hoping that the Israeli people will come to the rescue of the peace settlement. The Arab countries have done all that they can possibly do to convince everybody of their peaceful intentions, of their willingness to respond to the conditions that the Israelis have put on security and normal relations. But we can’t do more. We have to have somebody in Israel to come out as forthrightly as Saudi Arabia came out and to put their cards on the table saying “Yes, this is what we want: security.” But to say “Yes, we want security, but we want land for security because we don’t trust the Arab countries,” this is no way to reach peace. If you want to live peacefully in the region you have to make a settlement with the people of the region. You can’t live in spite of them, no matter what walls you build, what fences you put up.
What do you really expect the United States to do right now? Put yourself in George Bush’s shoes. He’s got this whole campaign against terror. Americans have felt the impact of suicide bombers. They know what this is like. Every time a bomb goes off in Tel Aviv or in Jerusalem killing innocent civilians a lot of Americans says that could happen to us, that has happened to us. You cannot compromise with people who do that.
Well, first off, this must be brought to a stop. But to equate Palestine with Afghanistan is something that is unimaginable. Afghanistan you sent your soldiers and you cleared the camps. What did the United States do in Afghanistan? It sent aid to the Afghani people, it helped the Afghani people liberate themselves from the tyranny of the Taliban. Is this what Mr. Sharon is doing in Palestine?
Do you think George Bush makes the comparison with Afghanistan?
This is what the Israelis are saying. They say that because you are fighting terror in the international community you have to agree to our policies that we are fighting terror as you are fighting terror. They are not! … There is no moral equivalence between what Mr. Sharon is doing and President Bush is doing.
President Bush seems to think there might be.
I doubt that is his position.
And you are saying there’s no moral equivalence between what Arafat is doing and what Osama bin Laden is doing?
Of course…. If terrorism is happening in spite of Arafat, it is because of the actions of Mr. Sharon. Because he is removing Arafat’s security forces from his control. He is destroying his infrastructure as a state. He’s insisting that he fight terrorism–how? How?
Your highness, you’ve known Arafat for a long time. You’ve watched the Palestinians for a long time. I understand that it’s difficult for him to use his security forces when he wants to. But there is a part of Arafat that’s a politician and that sees the winds of public support are behind the bombers. Maybe Arab governments don’t support them. But the public does. People in the Arab world like to see Israel frightened, as they would say, “for a change.”
When there is a groundswell of public opinion, it will be more difficult for a politician to take the actions that he needs to take. And this is what I’m saying: Sharon is creating this groundswell. He isolated Arafat, he is taking away his weapons to deal with the situation and yet he expects him to be the brave soul who will go counter to public opinion and do all the things he needs to do. And this is an untenable position under any circumstances. And it is unjust for anybody, in the United States or elsewhere, to expect Arafat to be able to do anything under the present circumstances. My God, he’s only safe now because 20 international citizens entered his home and stayed there.
Getting back to the question of what you really expect the Bush and the Americans to do. Crown Prince Abdullah is going to Texas…
I think what they can do is come with a clear-cut peace settlement that they have to put in front of both sides with serious intent. When you go for such a difficult question as peace in the Middle East, you can’t say ‘Well I will do this, but if there is opposition I will not be involved in this.’ You have to be as stubborn and as willful as those enemies of peace who are creating these acts to prevent peace, and to go the whole road. You can’t go in equivocating. You can’t go in with a perception that you will allow problems to arise that will stop you. You have to go in with a will and a determination. As there is a determination in fighting terrorists and in pursuing them to the hilt, there should be a determination to pursue peace in the Middle East with the same type of will and persistence. Failure is something that should not be conceived in an effort like this. And whoever is wrong, let’s say he’s wrong. If it is the Palestinians, all the Arab countries will convince them that ‘you are wrong.’ And if it’s the Israelis the United States must do that.
So, there’s Crown Prince Abdullah on the ranch with Bush, and Bush says to Crown Prince Abdullah, ‘what do you want me to do?’ What does he say?
Well, if you can’t put yourself in the place of President Bush I can’t put myself in the place of Crown Prince Abdullah [laughter]. But I think he goes there with the decision of the summit conference. He goes there with the experience of the past month in the Palestinian territories. He goes there having listened to Sharon’s speech devoid of anything but war, war, and war to fight terror, terror and terror. This is all that Israel is going to bring to the Middle East? To be a camp that ‘knows how to fight terror’?
Have you gotten any encouragement about the Arab initiative from anybody in Israel? Has anybody come forward to say, ‘Yeah! It’s time to make this deal’?
Well, this proposal was made only, what, four or five days ago.
Well, it wasn’t like it was a surprise. People could see it coming.
Ah, but they didn’t believe it was coming. And they didn’t believe it would be unanimously endorsed by the Arab summit, which it was. Now it is on the table. And we are hoping, I hope not beyond hope, that the Israelis will finally save the peace process; the Israeli people themselves. Peace is too important to leave for the politicians. It is now up to the Israeli citizens to come out and make their will known. Do they want peace? It is there for the taking. If they want to believe Mr. Sharon, he will only bring them more blood and death.
Your Highness, one of the things that the Israelis say is that Arafat gave up a great opportunity for peace at Camp David and, especially, at the Taba negotiations a few months later.
No. I don’t subscribe to that opinion whatsoever. When Taba was negotiated the Israeli elections were on, and Mr. Sharon was expected to win by a landslide. And he was saying in every speech that he made, that whatever agreement is reached by the present government, he wouldn’t abide by it. And he won the elections because of the rejection. So why would the Palestinians accept a rejected offer?
I am not an unbiased observer, but I think any honest observer can see now that the Israeli government is really not working for peace. That, if anything, it appears that the strategy of the Israeli government is to drive the situation to a crisis level where they will be allowed, because of the environment fighting terror, to drive the Palestinians out completely from their lands. That would radicalize the whole Middle East. A person like Mr. Sharon perceives it is Israel’s interest to have a radicalized Middle East in which Israel returns to the concept of ‘fortress Israel,’ the bastion of what he calls ‘democracy and the free world,’ supported by the United States. Israelis would live behind walls not as part of the region but in spite of the region. There are many illusions in the desert, and this is another illusion.
Is the violence in Israel and the territories threatening to the governments of the Arab world, including the government of Saudi Arabia?
Countries of the Arab world like Jordan and Lebanon, perhaps, but Saudi Arabia is not threatened by Arab reaction. But there is a threat of instability. Governments either support public opinion and take actions accordingly or they become unpopular. Then they may be changed for a more radical government.
The suicide bombers are popular. And the actions they take are popular. And governments that are seen to oppose those actions are going to be unpopular.
If we are to get that weapon out of the hands of these dangerous people, they [Israelis] have to change.
So there’s nothing you can do.
What can you do? Who is causing this effort at martyrdom? It is the Israelis. These [Palestinians] are people willing to die for their land, for their future. Who can tell them no? How can you tell them no if they are willing to die?
